The Bronze Lie: Shattering the Myth of Spartan Warrior Supremacy - Myke Cole
Shared by:micksuits
The story of the Spartans is one of the best known in history, from their rigorous training to their dramatic feats of arms–but is that portrait of Spartan supremacy true? Renowned novelist and popular historian Myke Cole goes back to the original sources to set the record straight.
The Spartan hoplite enjoys unquestioned currency as history’s greatest fighting man. Raised from the age of seven in the agoge, a military academy legendary for its harshness, Spartan men were brought up to value loyalty to the polis (the city-state) above all else, and to prize obedience to orders higher than their own lives. The last stand at Thermopylae made the Spartans legends in their own time, famous for their brevity, ability to endure hardship, control their emotions, and to never surrender–even in the face of impossible odds, even when it meant their certain deaths.
But was this reputation earned? Or was it simply the success of a propaganda machine that began turning at Thermopylae in 480 BC? Examining the historical record, both literary and material, paints a very different picture of Spartan arms–a society dedicated to militarism not in service to Greek unity or to the Spartan state itself, but as a desperate measure intended to keep its massive population of helots (a near-slave underclass) in line, forcing them to perform the mundane work of farming, cleaning, building and crafting to permit the dandified Spartan citizens (spartiatai) the time they needed to focus on their military training.
Covering Sparta’s full classical history, The Bronze Lie examines the myth of Spartan warrior supremacy against the historical record, delving into the minutiae of Spartan warfare from arms and armor to tactics and strategy. With a special focus on previously under-publicized Spartan reverses that have been left largely unexamined, it looks at the major battles as well as re-examining major Spartan “victories”. Most importantly, it re-examines Thermopylae itself, a propaganda victory utterly out of proportion to its actual impact–a defeat that wasn’t even accomplished by 300 Spartans, but rather by thousands of allied Greeks, all for the net effect of barely slowing a Persian advance that went on to roam Greece unchecked and destroy Athens itself.
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| Creation Date: | Thu, 09 Sep 2021 20:13:23 +0200 |
| This is a Multifile Torrent | |
| 12.mp3 27.06 MBs | |
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This post has 26 comments with rating of 4.2/5
September 9th, 2021
how does the fact that they needed the military to keep their helot slaves in line change the fact that they were all professional soldiers? All other things being equal they would pretty much win every fight.
September 9th, 2021
Long Live Thebes!
September 9th, 2021
@fall19
They didn’t win every battle and they didn’t expand so much beneath their surroundings. Sparta was Savage and barbaric. I find it funny when some romanticists were glorifying the fabrication they called the greek civilization, which wasn’t as glories or as romantic to fit a myth another fabrication in the colonization era called the western civilization.
September 9th, 2021
@within thats not what i said though. I said all other things being equal and they sure as hell were not. I may be remembering it wrong but i think spartans decide battle tactics by cutting a animal up and looking at his guts.
September 9th, 2021
Spartans didn’t even consider themselves greek, they were invaders
September 9th, 2021
Go tell the Spartans. Laconically.
September 9th, 2021
@fall19 - “cutting an animal up and looking at his guts.” Haruspices? I think that’s how Boris Johnson decides trade & foreign policy.
It was originally the Etruscans & Romans.
The Spartans might’ve gone for the liver (hepatoscopy - as in hepatic).
September 9th, 2021
They also went hat in hand to the Persians during the Peloponnesian war for money to finance their war with the Athenians. So much for not being under the thumb of the Persians. And BTW the Spartans lost the Battle of Leuctra to a troop that consisted 150 pairs of gay men.
September 9th, 2021
I would’ve thought, within the context of Hellenic warrior culture, just 150 pairs of gay men would be a staggeringly conservative estimate.
Some of the greatest soldiers in history, dontcha no.
September 9th, 2021
…even the Great Caesar was somewhat trysexual.
September 9th, 2021
Utter rubbish; junk!
September 9th, 2021
Awesome ….. Many Thanks !!
September 9th, 2021
@fall19
Classical historians looked at them as example for order although they never lived in that order or knew it for real. Sparta is actually the mythical name, they were called the lacedaemonians. the mythologizing of Sparta came much later by classical histrains and then romanticized in the late middle ages to modern era. it was subject of mythology even before the modern world knew it. the bad eximple of sparta can be seen in Natzi and cummnist idolagies. and their endorsement of militaristic society with no test in art, making machines which only people how know how to kill and win. but in reality sparta was defeated many times and then gone with the winds.
September 9th, 2021
They were gone with the winds, right enough. Like the foxy Queen Gorgo herself vowed, “As God is my witness, I’ll never be hungry again!” But she was given short shrift when she asked Leonidas “If you go, where shall I go? What shall I do?” etc.
There was actually much contemporary admiration of Sparta. If you have a read of the Republic, Plato lauded Sparta for its stability. He regarded it as almost the ideal paradigm. The other city-states suffered constant revolutions & upheaval, but the Spartan constitution remained unchanged for centuries.
September 9th, 2021
To justify totalitarian militarism, Laconophiles throughout history, from Plato until our own time, have cherry-picked not only the victories of ancient Sparta but also their own in order to construct a neat parallel with the past.
If a state was victorious in war, for instance Prussia against France, it was chalked up to their emulation of Spartan society. If they lost a war, however, it was because they weren’t Laconian enough. So whatever the outcome, the conclusion is always: more militarism.
September 9th, 2021
Plato’s positive analysis of Sparta was driven by the fact that he regarded the democratic regime as having lost Athens the war; and then they scapegoated that Socrates bloke.
September 10th, 2021
Tonight we dine in Hell!
(Or maybe that was just my cooking)
September 10th, 2021
– Good and Bad, who are we to judge. Not to mention that said reality is so long passed that it is comparable to straight up mythology.
September 10th, 2021
Thucydides, Xenophon & Plutarch are great on various aspects of Sparta. Moreover, ancient writers would’ve been working with sources which have not survived.
Andrew Bayliss’ book on the Spartans is also exceptionally good.
September 11th, 2021
Excellent, science fiction position. Well written, but it’s a pity it has nothing to do with the truth.
September 13th, 2021
Oh, there is still ‘much contemporary admiration for Sparta.’ It’s all in the Intelligence Community, High Ranking Officers- haven’t you ever heard Nixon’s quips on Bohemian Grove? If not, they’re pretty funny. Obviously he was pretty surprised how much admiration there was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eog5K-4L6z4
September 22nd, 2021
Thanks
November 4th, 2021
@wuuk The Sacred Band being exclusively gay men was probably made up by Polybius. It was organized in a hurry in the war with Sparta, and was made up of the elite who could afford stellar equipment; so it’s very unlikely they had time to organize a novelty like that.
Also, talk about bad history… the battle of Leuctra was won by the Thebes fighting in a heavily oblique order, basically ganging up on the Spartans on the right flank while their allies did nothing to support them. The Thebans also used innovative military tactics that went on to inspire Phillip II of Macedon… so being beaten by them is hardly to your discredit.
The Spartans would actually go on to fight very well against the Macedonians during the rebellion against Alexandre, and during the Cleomenian War, inflicting sever casualties despite being grossly outnumbered both times.
November 26th, 2021
seen please
November 26th, 2021
sorry. seed please.
November 26th, 2021
@Wuuk
Don’t mention the sacred band “batting left handed”, you’ll trigger pooloo60 and iamanaliam.
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